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August 11, 2021
Question

Concerns About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer

  • August 11, 2021
  • 52 replies
  • 1320 views

So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release:

  1. Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to "import" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app.
  2. Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P.
  3. Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying.
  4. Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment.
  5. Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them.

I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now.

I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships.


1Password Version: Not Provided
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52 replies

August 14, 2021

Well, I use 1Pwd not only for web passwords. I use it for many other informations (notes, accounts, server, plan routers...). The app is the main tool to collect and update important infos & details

Indeed, use cases vary between users a fair bit I'd imagine.

For me, 1Password serves as a store for "high priority" items I'm more likely to need regardless of what device I have on hand — key logins, software licenses, passport, etc while more pedestrian web account info is handled by iCloud Keychain. In my case the main app is the primary interface, so it's quite noticeable when random bits of jank, reduced smoothness in animation, alien widget behaviors, etc are introduced.

roustem
1Password Employee
1Password Employee
August 14, 2021

For me, 1Password serves as a store for "high priority" items I'm more likely to need regardless of what device I have on hand — key logins, software licenses, passport, etc while more pedestrian web account info is handled by iCloud Keychain. In my case the main app is the primary interface, so it's quite noticeable when random bits of jank, reduced smoothness in animation, alien widget behaviors, etc are introduced.

I agree about the high priority items and with the improvements in 1Password 8 I started using it for more documents and attachments. I even recently added my kid's report card to a vault because I know we will always be able to find it there and it is available to the entire family:

At the same time, at least in my experience, this is still less that 10% of what 1Password is used for day-todau: effortlessly signing into websites, filling credit cards, copying passwords.

austin
August 15, 2021

Resizing the font with ⌘+ and ⌘- is actually my favourite part, I am able to adjust how much information is shown on the screen. And so often we had older customers who wanted to see a bigger font.

Accessibility is important, absolutely. I don’t think that interface resizing (really, font resizing in a webpage) should be bound to keystrokes, and rebinding ⌘0 to “normal size” instead of the "all vaults" (which would I guess be a “default” collections view) is a breaking change. I can just see my mom accidentally hitting ⌘- a few times and saying the fonts are too small now.

Make it visible, but not on the keyboard. IMO.

gussic
August 15, 2021

@roustem

I also love what you said here:

Can I ask, seriously, what would it take for you reverse course and dump electron from the front end of the Mac App? I hate it, just even knowing it's on my computer is a worry for me.

There seems to be a lot of backlash about this decision, backlash that wasn't present in the same way for 1P7. Please don't go down this path, we are literally begging you.

August 15, 2021

Without wanting to be too snarky, I think this says it all. 😢

Less flippantly, I'm all for a ground up re-write, but this feels clunky. I'm not even necessarily judging it on the underlying tech here, just the end result. This feels like an Apple like "re-imagine" (that's also clunky) like when Apple went from iMovie 6 -> 7 or Final Cut Pro 7 -> X. Key features ppl relied on were missing for years until Apple restored them to the new design. I really hope that AgileBits continue to support v7 for a few years, as I won't be upgrading to this version any time soon.

Features-missing-wise, I miss being able to have a local vault as my primary vault, with a single memorable password used only for local 1Password unlock, and then have my multiple cloud vaults all added to the setup each with a SUPER complex password that I can't even remember! By adding them after my non-synced local vault it means I can have a super secure cloud passwords while maintaining a memorable one for my local devices (which are only accessible after I decrypt my FileVault and log into my Mac... etc.).

Also, pressing Option no longer seems to reveal passwords when 1Password 8 is foremost app. 🤔

Mini is a good example where we lost our way a bit with version 7, and many saw it as a downgrade from version 6.

I was shocked to hear someone (@chadseld) from 1Password above finally admit that "Mini" in v7 was a regression from v6. All through that beta season we all got told to get over it as the new design was way better and we didn't get it. So as nice as it is to hear this admission, I gotta say it doesn't feel like the lessons have been learned yet. Mini in v6 was great. How about you start there instead of trying to reimagine it again?? 😩

August 15, 2021

@gussic

Probably $200 million from another VC company that wants good apps. Unfortunately, @roustem hands are tied. He needs an enterprise app that is cheap to make.

August 15, 2021

“ I can tell you that the team working on mini v8 (now named Quick Access) is all about user experience”

Electron is the opposite of a good user experience. I think you’re going to lose a lot of good customers over this decision.

August 15, 2021

@m4rkw : Thats the price (users switching to another app) Agile has to pay. And pays. It is a parts of this kind of business.
In one year nobody will complain about it, it will be history. We see it with so many other apps where similar discussion popped up - done. Like with Fantastical.
For me the chapter 1Pwd is done. I will switch, sooner or later, to a new app or, depending how it works and "feels", Apples new KeyChain/Password function.
Sad that I have no "standalone" licence of v7 (and is not available anymore).

August 15, 2021

Yeah, it's really silly that right now (1password7) they have a great product that people would be happy to continue to pay for, and yet they want to go in this other crazy direction that people don't want.

I bought my standalone license in 2018, if the company would assure me that 1password7 maintenance will continue for another 5 years I'd happily switch to a subscription even without using their cloud service. Sure I bought a license for v7 and some people would think that entitles them to use it forever, but I appreciate that software requires maintenance and I'm happy to continue to pay in order to keep it going.

Please do let me know if you find a good alternative.

roustem
1Password Employee
1Password Employee
August 15, 2021

Can I ask, seriously, what would it take for you reverse course and dump electron from the front end of the Mac App? I hate it, just even knowing it's on my computer is a worry for me.

What exactly is worrying you, @gussic ? I see that fear all over the forums and Reddit and I understand some of it but I don't get the fear of web-based technologies (which we are using in 1Password 8 only to render the UI — networking, encryption, database, biometrics, system services, etc are all done in Rust and Swift). We actually had a web-based implementation of the item detail view back in 1Password 2 and it many ways I liked it more than the rigid UI we used later.

Many of the Apple's own apps are built with web technologies. There are many Mac apps but how many of them are truly great? The list is quite short and we can probably count them on one hand: OmniGroup, Panic, Fantastical. Just making an app "native" will not make it great and it is also possible to build a great user experience with web technologies.