So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release: Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to "import" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app. Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P. Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying. Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment. Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them. I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now. I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships. 1Password Version: Not Provided Extension Version: Not Provided OS Version: Not Provided

Thank you for your honest feedback. Many of the issues you mention are expected to be addressed. But some, like the number and kind of preferences will be different in version 8. 1Password 8 represents a ground-up rewrite for us, one in which we have gotten serious about sharing core functionality between all platforms (Mac, iOS, Linux, Windows, Android). Another aspect of this goal was a more unified UI design between platforms. Originally, we were writing the Mac version in Apple's new SwiftUI framework instead of Electron. I think if we had continued along that path, many of these same issues would still be present - because it's a new code base, there are a lot of parts missing, and a lot of parts without polish. Mini is a good example where we lost our way a bit with version 7, and many saw it as a downgrade from version 6. I can tell you that the team working on mini v8 (now named Quick Access) is all about user experience, user testing, optimizing navigation flows, etc... It's a rethink of what 1Password mini should be. And it will be better to use. It's just in a _ very early_ form right now.

@chadseld Do you all have any sense of openness to feedback or just a firm belief that what you created is perfect. I just imagine your leadership sending internal memos right now saying "HOLD THE LINE!!!!" This part rings significant to me: "1Password 8 represents a ground-up rewrite for us, one in which we have gotten serious about sharing core functionality between all platforms (Mac, iOS, Linux, Windows, Android)." You're basically explaining why this makes it easier for your team but not better for users. Before you respond touting feature parity across platforms, at least acknowledge that a lot (probably most) aren't using 1Password across 3+ platforms. Secondly, you ignore the single biggest consensus feedback so far which is that folks want the app to feel native to each platform they use. I hope you will read and think about this feedback.

Thanks for your response, @chadseld. I've seen in other threads how some things (like user-definable keyboard shortcuts) are coming. Hopefully they, and many of my other concerns, much of which are real usability headaches right now, are addressed by the official release. My feedback was based on just minutes of use where I saw these serious usability issues. I now have both 1P 7 and 8 installed, though rarely use 1P 8 for now, and keep it quit (well, one or the other is quit while the other is running). I want to like 1P 8, because of my longtime use of 1P, the importance of things like multiple content types and shared vaults (otherwise, if I just stored passwords just for myself, I may have looked into moving to the Apple-built alternative coming in macOS 12 anyway, if just for curiosity), and simply that my data is already in it. But we'll see what I feel like as the early access alpha continues to beta and then general official release. My feeling is that if Quick Access' keyboard shortcut can be customized (as well as work sans menu option being visible), the Apple Watch unlock be made as convenient as it is right now in 1P 7 (no extra click, need of the full window), and the Safari extension works well (I could barely get it to unlock consistently or show my data) I will probably try living on the 1P 8 preview for a few days. But still, this direction of 1P makes me about if an alternative may be needed. Hopefully it won't, honestly,

Just out of curiosity, @chadseld, why does the product management team think that users want "a more unified UI design between platforms"? Mac users use Macs because we like how Macs work and want to use software that feels like Mac software (Google the phrase "Mac-assed Mac Apps" to see what I'm talking about); presumably, Windows/Android/etc. users feel similarly about software they run on their own platforms. So what (user-oriented) goal is achieved by having a more unified UI design?

I agree with @StevenBedrick. Mac users do not want a unified UI design between platforms. We want a Mac specific UI design that feels right at home on out Macs. That's why I have been a 1Password user since 2007. All Electron does is make it easier to manage the code on your end. It does nothing to improve the experience for end users, in fact it's degrading it. Web based apps never feel native. I can't believe that a company that once took great pride in their great Mac software has made the decision to use Electron. Unfortunately there aren't really any other Mac native password managers available, but now that 1Password won't be one anymore it will lose that edge over the competition which is unfortunate. I'd much rather see you do some tweaks to 1Password 7 and keep it around for another year or two instead of forcing Electron on us.

Former Member

5 years ago

Concerns About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer

So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release:

Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to "import" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app.
Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P.
Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying.
Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment.
Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them.

I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now.

I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships.

1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided

betas

52 Replies

kcastill
New Contributor
5 years ago
@FCNV oh, I agree. Especially w/the looking to be acqui-hired and give Accel an exit part.
Former Member
5 years ago
kcastill

I understand the business incentives but the moment Microsoft decides to bundle in a password manager with their suite, 1Password's enterprise ambitions are done. That is unless somebody purchases them, which I think is their main goal.
kcastill
New Contributor
5 years ago

why does the product management team think that users want "a more unified UI design between platforms

My guess: once they opened up 1p for Windows and 1p for Teams, the revenue from that dwarfs the revenue from Mac-specific/only users.

So cater to the small, passionate, historical, vocal minority....or go/stay where the money is? From a business perspective...it'd be silly to do the former at the expense of the "greater good".

I've used 1p for over a decade and am Apple-only. I don't like the changes/direction I'm seeing in v8 at all...but I do understand the (likely) business case.
austin
Frequent Contributor
5 years ago
@chadseld I’ve been using 1Password since the very beginning. If the replacement for mini, Quick Access, isn’t as context-aware as mini is right now, then 1Password 8 is not ready for public release.

Understand that those of us who have used 1Password since v1 some 15 years ago have baked ⌘\ into our brains of “this is how you fill this webpage with the data that belongs to it”. Not ⌘⬆️Space. We have also baked ⌘⬆️\ as the way to “present a searchable suggestion list”.

That’s part of what is missing, and why we’re deeply skeptical of the user experience comment for Quick Access. At the moment, 1Password 8 is a giant leap backwards for those of us with you since the beginning, in a way that 1Password 7 and 1Password mini were not. They weren’t perfect, but they’re better than what we are seeing right now.

You can get there, but please don’t take until 8.5 to get there. I’m all in on 1Password—you offer a value proposition that cannot be matched by anyone else. But I won’t be upgrading anyone else on my family plan from 1Password 7 until I know that it isn’t a functionality and usability regression.
austin
Frequent Contributor
5 years ago

"app://" along with the bundle ID of an application enables Mini to be context aware of apps

You learn something new every day.
Former Member
5 years ago
austin I agree with you that Quick Access should be more aware than Mini. But at minimum it needs to be aware, which it currently isn't at all. No sense of what website I'm on. Much of what you say I do agree with, and even the Electron bit I can come to agree with, heck, for my programming work I spend lots of time in VS Code, which uses Electron. Mini can already be app-aware, just FYI. Use something like this in the URL field: app://com.apple.Terminal. "app://" along with the bundle ID of an application enables Mini to be context aware of apps. @chadseld, I hope Quick Access stays with this amount of awareness, once it gains any awareness.
austin
Frequent Contributor
5 years ago
I’m going to disagree with the hate on Electron. I am not happy about some of the missing features that I’ve seen in the ~20 minutes that I’ve been using 1Password 8 for Mac, and the onboarding experience was one of the least pleasant 1Password onboarding experiences that I’ve had, but I don’t see that as a problem specific to Electron.

I will say that I want 1Password to be able to bring features to all versions relatively quickly, and if Electron makes that easier, so much the better. I don’t recall what it was, but there was a feature that I was looking at available on the web that made no sense to be missing from 1Password for the Mac.

There are a few things that I would suggest:

Hit Command minus (⌘-) and reduce the default font size. That made things a bit nicer on my 13" M1 Air. To the 1Password team: ideally, you should disable font resizing, but have font spacing / sizing UI defaults available (e.g., compact, normal, etc.).

Restore Command 0 as the “all accounts” view.

Bring back the “all vaults” inclusion filter at the 1Password application level. Do not make me configure this on each browser. Ideally, when the browser extension is in “sync” mode, all options should be delegated to the application.

Improve the onboarding experience when you have multiple ~vaults~ accounts.

Do not have the full application open with Command backslash; like @alexcist I interact through 1Password 99% of the time through mini (most of my accounts are created and passwords set already) and I already have two other programs sitting on the spacebar (Command space is spotlight; Option space is Alfred). I want Quick Access to be at Command backslash.

Quick Access shouldn’t be a blank slate. It needs to be context aware, and ideally give me suggestions the way that mini did. You say it was a “lost direction”, but some of us find it extremely useful. Quick Access could be that, but it should be suggesting something relative to the context I’m in. It would be even better if it could be more context aware than mini and see what application you’re in (it would be so great to be able to have mini suggest application-specific passwords the way that iOS password integration has enabled).

I’m sure I’m going to run into things that are going to annoy me more, but I want feature parity between 1Password CLI, 1Password for Mac, 1Password for Web, and if it takes a Rust backend with Electron to do that…so be it. But please don’t lose sight of the features that customers love. The less time I am in 1Password the application, the better, because then it’s doing its job and I just don’t have to think.
Former Member
5 years ago
I agree with @StevenBedrick. Mac users do not want a unified UI design between platforms. We want a Mac specific UI design that feels right at home on out Macs. That's why I have been a 1Password user since 2007.

All Electron does is make it easier to manage the code on your end. It does nothing to improve the experience for end users, in fact it's degrading it. Web based apps never feel native. I can't believe that a company that once took great pride in their great Mac software has made the decision to use Electron.

Unfortunately there aren't really any other Mac native password managers available, but now that 1Password won't be one anymore it will lose that edge over the competition which is unfortunate.

I'd much rather see you do some tweaks to 1Password 7 and keep it around for another year or two instead of forcing Electron on us.
Former Member
5 years ago
Just out of curiosity, @chadseld, why does the product management team think that users want "a more unified UI design between platforms"? Mac users use Macs because we like how Macs work and want to use software that feels like Mac software (Google the phrase "Mac-assed Mac Apps" to see what I'm talking about); presumably, Windows/Android/etc. users feel similarly about software they run on their own platforms. So what (user-oriented) goal is achieved by having a more unified UI design?
Former Member
5 years ago
Thanks for your response, @chadseld. I've seen in other threads how some things (like user-definable keyboard shortcuts) are coming. Hopefully they, and many of my other concerns, much of which are real usability headaches right now, are addressed by the official release. My feedback was based on just minutes of use where I saw these serious usability issues. I now have both 1P 7 and 8 installed, though rarely use 1P 8 for now, and keep it quit (well, one or the other is quit while the other is running).

I want to like 1P 8, because of my longtime use of 1P, the importance of things like multiple content types and shared vaults (otherwise, if I just stored passwords just for myself, I may have looked into moving to the Apple-built alternative coming in macOS 12 anyway, if just for curiosity), and simply that my data is already in it. But we'll see what I feel like as the early access alpha continues to beta and then general official release. My feeling is that if Quick Access' keyboard shortcut can be customized (as well as work sans menu option being visible), the Apple Watch unlock be made as convenient as it is right now in 1P 7 (no extra click, need of the full window), and the Safari extension works well (I could barely get it to unlock consistently or show my data) I will probably try living on the 1P 8 preview for a few days. But still, this direction of 1P makes me about if an alternative may be needed. Hopefully it won't, honestly,

Forum Discussion

Concerns About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer

52 Replies

Featured discussions

September at 1Password: Browser versions, enhanced security, and new integrations

Recent discussions

New iPhone

All devices offline

Add Orion RC to list of apps that support universal autofill

Alphabetical sorting of tags

Passkey CR - Allow 1P To Scan QR Code