1Password 8 - Non-native feel

I haven't used fastmail

We're pretty far off topic here. Let's reel this thread back to the topic at hand. If there is a problem with the Masked Email feature, please feel free to start a separate thread on that. Thanks!

Ben

@Lars full disclosure, no. I haven't used fastmail, but I've used at least 7 others and even ones that aren't abused for spam (e.g. Spamgourmet) get blacklisted because they adopt lists compiled by companies who look for these kinds of services. I would be shocked if they didn't include Fastmail simply because it is disposable email whether it's paid for or not. The companies who compile these lists don't seem to segregate between the two.

Then again, I have over 500 logins (yes ~590+) so I've signed up on a LOT of places and have been a good litmus test for many sites.

@mia - you've seen that with Fastmail specifically? I have seen it with some of the larger free providers that allow quick and easy account creation and hence the possibility of abuse, but I haven't heard of it with regard to Fastmail -- and (full confession) I've had a Fastmail account that dates back to even before my first purchase of 1Password in 2007! One of the differences with Fastmail (at least for the last several years) is that there is no "free" option -- if you're using a @fastmail.com (or the older-school @fastmail.fm) address, you are paying at least something for it, and that eliminates nearly all spam: if spammers have to pay, they don't bother. So I've not experienced those issues with my own Fastmail account. You have?

@Lars Ya I knew you were with AG. I know your staff fairly well at this point, lol. :-)
I figured the AB's integration w/ FastMail was well under way before Apple's implementation. One of the problems with FastMail (and other providers!) is that forums, banks, big stores, etc tend to block due to spam abuse :(

but my way to deal with that is to find alternatives by developers who care about the Mac experience enough to use the native UI options available.

I know of no password managers that offer anything like 1Password does that still use native UI frameworks. Nobody that does is cross platform. Companies have the choice of developing only for a small niche segment of the market (Mac fanatics) or leaving native UIs behind and developing for everyone. If you find someone who has managed to do both, let me know.

Agree 100% rctneil - the Home app is an outlier and quite poor overall and I would never consider that to be a reference design. If anything, it's a good indication of what NOT to do in a Mac app.

@mia - if it wasn't clear, I'm an employee here as well. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't accidentally confusing or appearing to deceive anyone. The orange post header banners are the main "tell" for who is staff and who is community, and you can also click our profiles to verify the 1Password logo on it if you like.

I've heard the negative comments about Electron and the arguments against it just doesn't seem that compelling to me. The app runs fast.... Very fast.

Yep, and it's only going to get faster, and smoother, over time. Most people have their "bright lines" of what something they're willing to spend money on must have or can't have, and those will vary with individuals' tastes. We're aware we won't please everyone; that's why there are other offerings. What I will confess to not understanding is a perspective that places the requirement of specific local app UI toolkit seemingly above all other considerations, but that's the great thing: everyone gets to choose.

Glad you like Psst! sharing. It's a long-awaited feature that took a significant amount of care to make sure it was being done correctly and securely. Regarding other "3rd party-dependent" features, your point is well-taken, and we do develop features that are within our core wheelhouse when we can. Unfortunately, while we've grown substantially in the last couple of years, we're still nowhere near the size of Apple, meaning we don't already run our own email servers and infrastructure -- nor could we spin such a thing up quickly or easily. It would be great if we could, and who knows, someday we might have the kind of capacity to take on a large project like that quickly!

But even if we did, one of the things that's kept us at the forefront of the password management space over the years is a continual re-dedication to remembering to focus on the things that best suit our core offering (usable privacy and security), as well as our current resources. As I'm sure you can imagine, we've gotten tons of requests for all sorts of things over the years, and I place a lot of our success on us knowing how to choose the right ones for the right moment. Some suggestions are simply too big and not attainable at the moment they're offered. Some don't fit well with what we're trying to offer overall. Others are great and get adopted. And there are a myriad of other variations and reasons. We had our masked email feature well under development when Apple debuted their own offering, which maybe wasn't the ideal timing for us, but Apple don't share their roadmaps with us and there wasn't much we could (or can) do about the timing of Apple's feature releases. We love Apple's implementation, and for those who want to stick solely within the Apple ecosystem, it can be a great addition. But, in much the same way that 1Password itself works across browsers and platforms in a way that iCloud keychain does not, partnering with a great email provider like Fastmail means users can now enjoy the masked email feature wherever their digital life takes them.

Either way, both your passion and your comments are always appreciated, and I hope you'll stick around and continue to tell us what you think. :) :+1:

@mia - you're entirely correct; most of what we refer to as the Core codebase will indeed be able to be receive changes simultaneously across all platforms with little or no extra effort, allowing us to not only iterate faster, but as a result, have more developer and designer cycles available to move on to other things instead of expending them having to try to match functionality across multiple platforms. The result is the ability to deliver things like Masked email (debuted Sept. 28) and “Psst” (secure sharing with anyone; debuted earlier this month) on a much faster schedule. And to reply to user's feature requests more quickly as well! ;)

@Lars I understand. I probably would've gone the same route. The Psst sharing is wonderful, but the Masked email is shrug since Apple already integrated this in iCloud+ and fastmail costs more money. I would recommend AgileBits bake more of the stuff into the app or service itself instead of relying on an external party for future requests.

@Lars - I am a customer like you. I use the PC, Mac, Browser, & iPhone versions of 1PW and have used it since v3. I am extremely merciless and brutal when it comes to 1PW's development as poor 1P_Ben and others on the support team will attest. It's because I love this software very much that I communicate with such passion. With that said, I've heard the negative comments about Electron and the arguments against it just doesn't seem that compelling to me. The app runs fast.... Very fast.

I get that it helps free up time for new features quicker, but I'd rather have native high quality apps than new features. 1Password already does everything I need from a password manager. Anything else is just a bonus. However, with the new Electron approach I no longer like the Mac application and will stay with version 7. If version 9 is a native application I'm staying with 1Password, otherwise I probably won't. Same goes if there is a security issue discovered in version 7 that won't be patched in favor of version 8. That's how much I dislike the Electron experience.

AgileBits needs to innovate or it dies. The new sharing feature is an example of a feature I think adds to their mission. I think the privacy.com credit card feature is useless because it requires an extra subscription and same with fastmail, especially since Apple is offering a similar service baked into iCloud+.

I'll give it to you that you have one of the better Electron implementations, but there are still issues that can't be solved with electron, like it feeling like a web app, menus not being able to extend past the application window, and the general feel with things such as scrolling behavior. I don't think I have seen any Electron app with elastic scrolling.

I haven't seen any issues with the scrolling. It's wicked fast on my PC. Is this elastic scrolling for Macs?

I have chosen to use Macs for many reasons but with a major one being the premium application experience both from Apple and third parties. The fact that all applications have a similar and familiar look and feel that just fits in, and that developers of small and large applications alike are paying attention to this. I'm sad to see more and more applications moving to Electron and similar solutions, but my way to deal with that is to find alternatives by developers who care about the Mac experience enough to use the native UI options available.

I know it's not ideal but I empathize with their position. Imagine coding for 5 different platforms. Each feature, each fix has to be applied to all these different platforms. I understand their desire for a more efficient workflow.

@user12345 - I can't argue with any of the points you made, because they're matters of preference and prioritization, and you've clearly stated yours. That means they're valid by definition. I don't know that I think they're all that widely-shared, but we are always willing to listen to thoughtful feedback, and I'm happy to pass yours along.