1Password v8 is a Mistake

roustem

Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:

1. Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
2. Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
3. It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.

Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and they realized they should have been native. I firmly believe there is a way for you to get rich and be proud of your work and decisions at the same time. It just starts with you accepting the feedback in earnestness.

It’s been a super painful day for me because I love this company but to just cheer on this bad decision is a form of co-dependency. Like someone said, I don’t need to eat Modern Mud to know that I don’t like mud.

But because I really do care, I did eat some mud and tried this thing out. Spent a lot of energy on posts, tweets and conversations.

Here is one example: The About Box

Who cares? I care. Because I like things to work consistently. So in 1Password 8, as shipped, after a year’s work (or more?) imagine me doing this support for a relative I’ve convinced to use 1Password (there are many) and are now having issues with 8:

“Ok let’s see why version you have, under 1Password menu, choose About 1Password”
“Ok it says 8.2.345”
“Ok great, press command-w to close the about box”
“Ok. Did that”
“Ok select your login”
“What login? They all went away”
“They what? What app is named in the upper left corner next to the Apple menu”
“Finder”
“What????”

1. Non-standard About Box
2. Non standard preferences
3. Non-standard handling of command-W

That’s the level of native support we are at. Because of a design decision, which was driven by being cross platform.

Oh and I left out that the about menu opens the preferences which are a fake window living on top of the 1Password window with a “X” web style close box in the upper right corner.

That’s just one of the issues. Default key shortcuts missing for dialogs, regression of existing features, etc all add up to a signal from the company that it’s firmly headed towards Enterprise first (if not there already) and what’s next? Selling the company to Big Corp?

1Password is more than an app. It’s my entire digital life that I entrusted with AgileBits. Now that trust I gave them to do the right thing is in question, by my standards admittedly. Call it dramatic, insult all you want, this is a deep question of trust in decision making related to the most important data I am in possession of.

To call this the best release ever is a really confusing message to me. Is this the best release, or a maybe kinda will be some day it’s only beta after all release? Sends a weird message about what was touted as the most loved password manager in the world, which is somehow now no longer all that great compared to this incomplete, regression laden beta of version 8.

It’s also really confusing to see you diss your own product that was world class yesterday and today “And don't get me started about the sidebar or item editing in 1Password 7.”

@FCNV I am certainly seeing things from my perspective and it is not easy for me to see it from yours. It is "my baby" and I probably see only (mostly) the good things — the new features, the security improvements, better performance, cleaner UI, a ton of usability improvements. Just the better keyboard support in the main app makes me happy. And don't get me started about the sidebar or item editing in 1Password 7.

So far, the main complaint is that "it is an Electron app, and it is unacceptable to me because I am a Mac user". There were a few valid points about memory usage and a few notes about visual elements. The new mini (Quick Access) is obviously not finished but it will be. What else am I missing?

@shepstl Yeah, sorry about that. I meant to @blankspace. Getting used to this forum where I'm accustomed to being able to quote posts. My bad!

@ibuys

Odd, isn't it? How over time we grow accustomed, and even connected, to a piece of software.

I get that. But you guys - some of you - act as if someone had taken away the entire password manager from you. When all that's happened is there is a new early access version, which you neglect solely because it is being built on Electron rather than being a native Mac app. As if that would take away any of the functionality. It may look a bit different, but that's really all that changes. There will probably be feature parity once we're out of early access / beta. I really don't get the hyperbole over-dramatization of this "Electron bad, the world has ended".

If and when there is feature parity between the native and the Electron app, and it works as good as before, there is really absolutely no reason to be upset. Just because something moves to Electron is not a good enough reason to overreact like some here do.

You should all be intellectually honest enough to ask yourself whether you buy a password manager for its fancy "native Apple look" or for what it can do.

Some just want to be upset.

roustem

"The point that was trying to make is that we should do better at showing our users why we love the new app and why they will love the new version as well."

See, this is what I mean. Your insistence that users "will love the new version as well" is completely detached from the feedback you are getting. This is not a better app for a lot of users. No number of blog posts and videos are going to fix that. You're going to have to make the app much better for them to love it. Again, this isn't a matter of positioning, this is a matter of quality. You first need to accept that 1Password isn't as good as you believe it is. If you don't respect the feedback, you don't respect your users.

1Password built its loyal fellowship, and presence in the enterprise, from the bottom up. Power users that brought it to work and convinced their companies to invest in it. Now you are trying to build a product channel from the top down. I think if you do that with a bad app, those same users that went to bat for you in the enterprise will now take you down. Good luck with your strategy.

@fcnv, I didn't say you were disrespectful or attacking devs. I said I have not seen anyone doing that. They've only been attacking the decision. Calm down, I was backing you up. I think you directed that at the wrong person.

@shepstl I'm going to stop you there. Nothing I said was disrespectful, childish, or untrue. I'm not attacking the developers. I know they are capable of making great apps. I know it hurts to work on something and then be told it is not good, but it is necessary to the process. I have been constructive in my posts and not looking to get into a forum war with you over it.

roustem As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't seem like you are being receptive to the feedback and the idea that perhaps this isn't a good app. Rather, it seems like you are trying to argue that we just need time to get used to it or that Agilebits has done a poor job positioning the new benefits of it. You bring up VS Code as an amazing example of an Electron app. While I don't personally agree, that also doesn't mean that 1Password 8 is of that same caliber yet. It just seems like you're looking for ways to make users like 1Password 8 more than you are looking to actually fix 1Password 8.

@FCNV that's fair, thanks for pointing this out ❤️

The point that was trying to make is that we should do better at showing our users why we love the new app and why they will love the new version as well.

roustem

"I think a lot of people make the judgement without even trying it. Dave described the new version in the blog post but I wonder if we should make a video and show off the new features without asking people to download the app."

Respectfully, I think you have your blinders on. Almost everything posted here, on Reddit and Twitter has been fairly critical of the knew app, but you are seeing that as an issue with perception rather than the product. And rather than fixing the product, you think it just needs to be better explained...like through a video?

Not trying to be dramatic, but you're either stuck in an echo chamber or knowingly deceiving users. You're better than that.