Design language

So the question "will you make your 'Mac' app actually work like a Mac app instead of a Linux app" is one that can "only be answered in time"?

Do y'all even understand why your subscribers who care about having real Mac software are upset?

On this forum some AgileBits employees have actually defended a modal, completely unmovable, close-button-on-the-right, can't-even-be-closed-with-Command-W preferences window as "better" than a proper window. Is that supposed to be encouraging to people who want software that works the way it is supposed to?

This is Microsoft Word 6.0 all over again.

Apple just went through this themselves with their botched redesign of Safari 15. They did the right thing about that. Will you?

@claus Ultimately, we’re the vocal minority. AgileBits believes—rightly, I fear—that most users won’t notice; or if they do, they’ll just accept the slow and gradual decline because it doesn’t matter much to them.

@cyberskier From using a dozen different Electron apps in the past, it seems there are several qualities that are simply endemic to the framework. Remember that Electron is just a stripped down version of Chromium plus a Node.js runtime. This goes beyond higher resource use and extends into actual UX. I’m not confident they’re fixable, or at least one app would have fixed them by now.

To the team’s credit, 1PW 8 is easily the most native-feeling Electron app I’ve used. Granted it’s not an especially high bar to clear, but I can tell effort has been put in to make it as close as possible, given the inherent limitations of the framework. Personally? I don’t like it. There have been a lot of heated words in this topic, and I don’t want to add fuel to the fire, so I’ll leave it at that. Right now, I’m considering whether to keep using 1PW 7 or migrate to another service.

A question for the team: Any insights as to why Catalyst wasn’t chosen? It’s also imperfect, but I would prefer to use that than Electron.

@KirkMcPike some questions can only be answered with time. What I know for sure is that Mac is really important to us (and, not that it matters much, but also to me personally), and the reason we have an early access is to get feedback to guide our next steps. We've already started acting on some of it, and we're going to keep doing that.

@claus yep, you're right. We started over with 1Password 8 in many ways, and there are certainly drawbacks to that decision. We think it sets us up to provide a better user experience in the long run because fewer lines of code means fewer places for bugs to hide, and now when a Linux or Windows user finds a bug, the Mac will get that fix automatically. Anecdotally, I fixed an issue with item category grouping in Rust several weeks ago and it was so satisfying to see it roll out in all the apps.

Why not releasing the Mac v8 first, before Linux and Windows?

I think there are a lot of reasons here. As you've mentioned, 1Password 7 for Mac is a really nice and mature app. 1Password for Windows is a lot younger, and 1Password for Linux was nonexistent. So it makes sense, for example, to release an app for Linux that doesn't have all the features of 1Password for Mac, because previously there was no app at all. Indeed the Linux app was very warmly received, even though it was much less complete at its stable release than the Mac version was at its early access release.

@dougl and @blankspace fair points. Sounds like I overly simplified the factors going into that decision. There's only so much time in the day, but it would be great if we can get there. As for Mojave, a Mac dev could speak more to this, but I think the things we were using required Catalina.

To everyone, thanks for caring and thanks for commenting. We're always going to try to make the best product we can, and we rely on your feedback to make that happen.

1P_Rob I've read that post before, and it still doesn't make sense for not using SwiftUI on macOS. I read the justification of not wanting to leave older user's behind but as of writing this, however I'm not sure if 1P team is aware the percentage of user's who could use a SwiftUI app stands above 85% as Mojave is the earliest OS usable. With Apple's new OS just around the corner, this will easily rocket up past 90% in the coming weeks as further people upgrade or purchase new computers.

Meaning macOS is getting the unified app allegedly because of a maximum of 10-15% of users on older devices who would probably stick with the standalone 1p7 since they clearly aren't looking for the latest software anyway if they're still on High Sierra.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/macos/desktop/worldwide

Either way, keep listening to the feedback, it's not launched so realistically none of this matters. A lot of us have expressed our anger and have shown the sub cancellations, so balls in your court.

I'll just chime in and say that I totally agree with @KirkMcPike 's comments about the menus in 1P8- they are way less functional than what we had in 1P7. Getting some of that functionality back up where it belongs would be a big help. As would having a platform-native preferences UI, with its close box in the proper left-aligned location. :-D

" it's quite possible the Mac app will use Swift UI again at some point when we don't have to worry about that choice cutting off a sizable share of macOS versions."

Why not make that cut with 1P8? You're going to have to keep 1P7 under maintenance because of the anti-electron customers (or lose them). There are lots of apps that no longer work with things older that Catalina, and many not even that. So make 1P8 the go-forward, native app, and let legacy users ride 1p7 into the sunset until they upgrade to a modern supported OS. That's 2-3 years (because older than that even Apple doesn't support).

1P_Rob: See, thats the point. Bugs and smaller cosmetic problem will be fixed, the 1Pwd team wants and is happy about this feedback. But it is about bugs ...
You started again with zero. In v8 are mistakes I have never thought about that they are possible.And the users have to tell you what to do?! You had an almost perfect v7!
But when someone writes about the GUI, user experience (...) in general we get only links to e.g. "The Story so far". But this is too easy, this is NOT listening to the users. It is whitewashing.
Why not releasing the Mac v8 first, before Linux and Windows? Critical threads do not appear in chronological order anymore.

Please, dear 1Password team - if you do not want to hear this negative feedback, then say it! Say that it is not important anymore. You focus on v8 as it now, with bug fixing here and there. Thats all.

I have - had - the hope that AgileBits understand what is happening here and many other forums, social media, news pages which report ab v8, ... I saw 99% negative feedback about v8. Many users will move their vaults to a new home. Maybe AgileBilts reads it - but does not care about it.

Maybe the only way is to leave 1Pwd. And, if we are enough ex-1Pwd-users, maybe AgileBits understand what happened. But then it is too late ...

That post is just after the fact justification for making a user-hostile decision. Will all of the egregious UI problems that don’t fit Mac UI conventions be fixed before the final release? It’s not reasonable to ask Mac users to live with a Linux UI for the hope that someday it might actually be a Mac app again.

There's a lot of great feedback in this thread. As has been mentioned, folks here are listening, and no decision is final.

If you haven't checked out @MrRooni's blog post 1Password 8: The Story So Far, there's some more background there on the current direction of the Mac app and other apps. In addition, looking at the constraints described there, it's quite possible the Mac app will use Swift UI again at some point when we don't have to worry about that choice cutting off a sizable share of macOS versions.

@blankspace : Oh, yes, maybe you are right, I am petty! I am just a Mac user with one subscription license, paying yearly.
AgileBit should offer 1Pwd only for companies if it is more important to fulfil 1., 2. and 3. And not releasing an alpha for users like me and a few more Mac users. AgileBits wanted to hear feedback. What did they expect - that all likes/loves v8?
You know, I use 1Pwd since v2 was released. Almost every day, it is a product which I use a lot, I add notes, important data, I take care. For years! And now, to see these steps backwards and realising to work with v8 in the future?! No way.
It hurts ... I am not very interested to wait until v7 gets not the support it needs to run on newer OS/iOS/ - knowing that sooner or later v7 will be dead.
You see it from a different point of view. Yes, probably it is more important to offer an easy-to-use-and-maintaince product to enterprise users. And "normal" Mac users have to accept it. Or not, and leave Full stop.
PS: Oh, btw - I dont care flashy animations. But I am not an enterprise user, how does it work?!! And, btw, where are flashy animations in v7?