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sj0123's avatar
sj0123
Occasional Contributor
12 months ago

A cool idea on passkey unlock

Hello!
While browsing threw 1password community, I noticed that a lot of users are requesting a way to log into 1password with their hardware security keys.
I myself didn't test the passkey feature yet, but I saw the whitepaper and know how passkey works in current system.
If I remember correctly, 1password clients store device keys which encrypts the AUK and even though it support hardware security keys as passkeys, the encryption key isn't stored in the security key, right?
So you need a trusted device in addition to a passkey to login.
For this, I have an idea that would make using passkeys in 1password much simpler and much secure as well.
The basic idea is using openpgp smartcards in place of passkey and the 2fa.
Let me explain this in more detail.
When creating a new account or switching existing account to use passkeys the user would have an option to use hardware smartcards as passkeys.
When the user clicks that button, 1password client will randomly generate the AUK as usual and prompt the user for an openpgp public key file.
This is where things get interesting.
If the user imported or generated a openpgp key pair in hardware smartcards such as yubikey 5 openpgp application, the private key remains in the card and is not exportable while the public key flows freely around the filesystem and internet.
This allows the user to set up their hardware security key without having the security key.
Once the user chooses their public key, 1password client will encrypt the AUK with user's public key and send the encrypted AUK to the 1password server.
From this point, the user is able to unlock and sign in using only security key and security key pin. No master password and secret key required.
It can even replace 2FA since the security key is usually pin protected.
Even this isn't an end of the advantages it offer.
The asymmetric nature of openpgp will allow the user to set up the same security key to multiple accounts without plugging the key itself. All they have to do is using their public key to encrypt the AUK of new accounts and send those to 1password.
Another advantage is security. Compared to traditional passkey unlock.
Unlike the traditional method, device keys will not be stored in unencrypted form for extended amount of time. Instead, the private key to decrypt AUK will remain in the secure element of a dedicated hardware, so it would be an ideal solution if your device doesn't have a hardware backed secure enclave.
If there are concerns about lusing the hardware key, this isn't going to be a problem as recovery code will come to rescue. It would even possible to generate a new pgp key pair inside backup security key and use that in place of recovery code.
I think this feature is a dream solution. Users will feel ultra convenient, login process will become ultra secure and it could even make 1password stay ahead on password manager market.
This feature would also allow devices with a secure enclave to be used in place of openpgp smartcards with some modifications.
I think this feature, if gets implemented, will definitely improve passkey unlock experience significantly.
Please note that I mixed the term security key and smartcard here, because not all security keys are smartcards and not all smartcards are security keys.
The term smartcard and security key both refer to a hardware devices that securely store cryptographic keys and performs cryptographic operations like key generation, encryption, decryption inside a dedicated secure cryptochip.
Please let me hear your thoughts on this feature.
Thank you


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1Password says \"passkey available\" on my Yahoo card, but it's not! Instead they use a Yahoo dedicated \"Account Key\" instead. So why show this message?
\n

\n\n
\n\n

_1Password Version: 1Password for Mac 8.10.9 (81009029)
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1Password says \"passkey available\" on my Yahoo card, but it's not! Instead they use a Yahoo dedicated \"Account Key\" instead. So why show this message?
\n

\n\n
\n\n

_1Password Version: 1Password for Mac 8.10.9 (81009029)
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Unable to sign into Yahoo using a passkey","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:39508"},"body":"

Hello everyone,

\n\n

Passkeys.directory now shows that Yahoo.com supports both Sign in with passkey and Passkey MFA. Please see our entry for more details: Yahoo.com - Passkeys.directory

\n\n

If you don't see the option to add a passkey then it may not yet be available for your Yahoo account, it looks like Yahoo is performing a staged rollout. If Yahoo does make passkeys available for your account then 1Password will be ready to save and sign in using that passkey.

\n\n

WGBeekhuis

\n\n

According to passkeys.directory, currently only Yahoo.com and Yahoo.co.jp have introduced passkey support.

\n\n

-Dave

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I think because Yahoo.JP (Japan) was one of the first companies who supported Passkeys, Yahoo was recognized to take place on the list of supported Passkeys sites.
\nU fortunately other Yahoo countries dit not follow this innovating initiative.
\nSee also https://web.dev/case-studies/yahoo-japan-passkeys

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This is confusing. Yahoo doesn't allow passkeys. I'm not too interested in, \"well technically they do...\"

","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"108","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-11-21T09:12:22.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-11-21T09:12:22.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":106},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"customFields":[{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_source_identifier","stringValue":""},{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_message_origin","stringValue":""},{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_share_messages","stringValue":""}]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:39505":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:39505","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:39505":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:3525"},"id":"message:39505","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:discuss/community:cuxzj43862board:1password/message:39495/message:39505","revisionNum":1,"uid":39505,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:1password"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:39495"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:39495"},"subject":"Re: Unable to sign into Yahoo using a passkey","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:39505"},"body":"

Also in The Netherlands Yahoo doesn’t support Passkeys. I tried several times to check if it should be available, but unfortunately Yahoo has no t taken steps to implement Passkeys.

","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"183","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-10-19T13:51:39.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-10-19T13:51:39.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":96},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"customFields":[{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_source_identifier","stringValue":""},{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_message_origin","stringValue":""},{"__typename":"CustomStringField","name":"smartconx_share_messages","stringValue":""}]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:39504":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:39504","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:39504":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:17184"},"id":"message:39504","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:discuss/community:cuxzj43862board:1password/message:39495/message:39504","revisionNum":1,"uid":39504,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:1password"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:39495"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:39495"},"subject":"Re: Unable to sign into Yahoo using a passkey","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:39504"},"body":"

I confirm that Yahoo ask for a physical key (at least in their picture), but in reality it must be asking for the passkey cause 1Password kicks in and suggests the saved passkey.

\n\n

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Wow that's one weird method Yahoo's using!! Indeed you're right: with them when you setup a Physical Security Key (you don't have a choice, they don't list \"passkey\" anywhere as a security method), it creates a Software Passkey, and of course 1Password will store it as a passkey. The problem with that confusing approach is:

\n\n
    \n
  1. Passkey should NOT rely on a physical key, as it's the case here
  2. \n
  3. Their method is not standard and will mix up people (in my opinion they already are)
    \nAt least it allow us to name the key, so it'll be easier if Yahoo ask for the physical key in the future (cause I use 3 keys)
  4. \n
\n\n

One weird fact though: the key I inserted has a finger reader (NOT a fingerprint reader), and on every other site asking me for a key, I had to press my finger on the key to validate I'm there, but not this time. It accepted the key right away!

\n\n

Yahoo, you're weird guys!!

\n\n

\n\n

\n\n

\n\n

\n\n

\n\n

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johnnygoodface You can use passkey instead of a physical key, 1Password enabled that.
\nWhen the Yahoo website prompt for physical key, an 1Password popup will appear.
\nI enabled passkey using Security Key option.
\n
\nOnly for 2-Step Verification though.
\n
\nI think they should update https://passkeys.directory since I can't login using passkey.
\n

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I know what a physical security key is, but Passkey is quite literally the same thing in software. They both implement the FIDO authentication standard. Ergo, Passkey can be used as a second factor, if that's all the site allows, no matter what the site's slow to get a clue administrators call it.

\n\n

Therefore, there is no error with 1Password's alert that Passkey support is available. In the Passkey directory that 1Password maintains, there may need to be an edit done to specify whether they support both Signing and MFA, or just MFA.

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johnnygoodface

\n\n

I ran into the same issue you described. I'll get this mentioned to the team.

\n\n

edit: It looks like it might be in a beta or something like that. https://in.help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN35635.html

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Sorry to contradict you but Security Key is not a Passkey. Security key is a physical key you insert like a USB Yubikey key and you would then follow Yahoo's instructions like this:
\n

\n\n

Passkey is software only and doesn't require any physical device.
\nI've fully disabled my 2FA and started over again but Yahoo still only offers those 3 options above, and none of it is Passkey.

\n\n

I guess the correct question is: \"why is Yahoo listed in the Passkey directory (https://passkeys.directory/details/yahoo/)?\" because this is probably why 1Password is tricked into thinking Passkey is available for Yahoo.

\n\n

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