Concerns About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer
So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release:
Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to "import" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app.
Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P.
Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying.
Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment.
Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them.
I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now.
I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships.
1Password Version: Not Provided Extension Version: Not Provided OS Version: Not Provided
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About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer","id":"message:121163","entityType":"FORUM_TOPIC","eventPath":"category:discuss/community:cuxzj43862board:1password/message:121163","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":52,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:-1"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:1password"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:121163"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:121163"},"body":"
So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release:
\n\n\n
Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to \"import\" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app.
\n
Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P.
\n
Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying.
\n
Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment.
\n
Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them.
\n\n\n
I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now.
\n\n
I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships.
\n\n\n\n
1Password Version: Not Provided \nExtension Version: Not Provided \nOS Version: Not Provided
","body@stringLength":"3976","rawBody":"
So I briefly tried 1P 8 and then noped right back to 1P 7. Here are some of my concerns, I hope they are fixed before general public release:
\n\n\n
Mini. This is how I use 1P daily. Seems that 1P Mini has been reduced to a search field. Fine, I guess. May be nice. But that I cannot change its keyboard shortcut. I mean, with 1P 7 I use a 2-key shortcut that is deeply engrained in my memory and prime at my keyboard alongside other key system shortcuts. You have to allow us to \"import\" that into 1P 8. Such customizations is critical on macOS. Also, does Mini require the menubar option be shown? Why is that? I don't show 1P 7 there because the keyboard shortcut is all I need on my desktop with 2 large displays. All that considered, it was in my testing nearly impossible to just bring up Mini from any app.
\n
Safari. Why require a separate app again, like was needed in the past and for Chrome? And it seems that it was not sensitive to showing logins for sites I am on like all 1P versions of the past did. Why? Will this be fixed? While the search is great for straight-up use, 1P in browser must be able to surface what it thinks will be needed most. Does it, too, need to be in the (about to be ever weirder, thanks Apple, but that is another issue not for you all) status bar? Because I also don't show it in 1P 7 given the keyboard being how I invoke 1P.
\n
Biometry. I use my Apple Watch multiple times a day to unlock 1P. In 1P 8 Mini the main 1P window always had to come up, and then me click a button, to trigger it. In 1P 7 Mini it just initiates the biometry itself. Why is this so much more user-intensive now? This, too, must be just as simple as it is today. Unlocking the main window was equally button-heavy. This is just untenably annoying.
\n
Electron. I mean, really, maybe it can be made to look more like the existing macOS app and other Mac apps. But that is way too heavy for a password manager. Please reconsider and go back to Cocoa. Maybe I'm needlessly harsh on this point. But given my others, this is a compounded concern. I use VS Code almost daily. I've grown used to it. That is Electron. But one of the main reasons I use 1P is its nativeness. Regardless the tech underneath, 1P 8 does not feel native. This is a serious disappointment.
\n
Preferences. As I alluded to above, all existing 1P 7 preferences must be present in 1P 8. I have 1P set up how it works best for me. Not just keyboard shortcuts being all custom, but nearly every preference I likely have tweaked at one time or another. These must stay customizable. All of them.
\n\n\n
I truly am sorry if this feels harsh. As 1P support staff may know, I post here often with questions and answers. I've used 1P since it used the Mac OS X keychain for storage and now use Families. I write software (web, iOS, Mac, etc.) and manage websites for organizations for a living, so have some idea of what feedback should be, but also how critical my password manager is in my line of work. It and its speed and stability are critical. 1P 8 truly saddens me and makes me wonder if my longtime support of you all was misplaced years ago until now.
\n\n
I am more than willing to continue this conversation here or in another venue. But I will not be trying 1P 8 again until it is finalized. This is unlike me, as I have used 1P betas in the late-summers for years. Kind of feel it is a role I as another developer should play. By general public release, I sincerely hope for all of us that my concerns, and the many concerns expressed by others here, are taken seriously. Or that you do as Apple themselves are with iOS and keep 1P 7 fully supported and getting updates even after 1P 8 ships.
\n\n\n\n
1Password Version: Not Provided \nExtension Version: Not Provided \nOS Version: Not Provided
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Concerns About 1P 8 for Mac from a Web and Software Developer","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:121215"},"body":"
\n
The problem is that the Zoom call or a Twitch stream can be recorded and it is pretty easy to go back frame by frame.
\n
\n\n
So at least make it an option, even if it's disabled by default. Don't just summarily remove the feature.
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Very good reason to not do password unlocks inline in the browser :-)
\n\n
and to share only the app, not the screen, but that's a different forum!
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\n
Is it really? Can't say I've ever done it, and even if I had, pressing macOS modifier keys is a brief split second action in general. Anyone \"shoulder-surfing\" would have to have superhuman photographic recall to read and memorise a long complex password in a second or less.
\n
\n\n
The problem is that the Zoom call or a Twitch stream can be recorded and it is pretty easy to go back frame by frame.
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Chiming in here. First, electron as a UI is a been-there-done-that-and-dumped-it pattern. Java and Flash are the two predecessors, and the issue is that don't get a mac app or a windows app. You get a flash app, or java app or electron app. They don't look and feel like native apps and the more you try and work around the framework, the more exposure you have to bugs. Sure, it's easier for developers, and looks good to the bean counters because it is initially cheaper, but in the long run the UX is always substandard compared to native code. Full Stop. Over the long term that costs more money because as customers leave, you end up rewriting to a native app anyway.
\n\n
Security issues? Yes, absolutely as both Java and Flash clearly demonstrate. Electron should be somewhat better because of 20 years of advancement in coding practices and language development, but the risk is non-zero. Now any third party library has those issues, but native API's are one less abstraction layer to worry about, and Electron has a much larger attack surface and is a bigger, more juicy target.
\n\n
Browsers are the most vulnerable, most commonly compromised, piece of software on the system. Browser integration is a key feature of a password system, so I accept that risk/ease of use tradeoff - especially for the less technical members of my family, but I've disabled the in-line unlock features both because it's just too darn easy to type into the wrong field (and I'm waiting for a malicious site to pop up a fake prompt), and because it covers up important information most of the time. The net is that runs in/with the browser needs to be at a higher standard than a standalone app.
\n\n
I have zero issues with requiring a subscription for 1P8. Agile needs funding to support development, and their pricing is very reasonable for the capability they provide. However, that does mean I do expect a Mac application that enhances my overall security posture, not a lowest-common denominator hobbled solution based on a shaky framework with poor performance and UX.
\n\n
Would I stop using 1P8 because it's electron? Not sure yet. Because of functionality gaps? Probably, but it's still early, so they should be fixed. Is there anything in 1P8 that looks like a genuine killer feature for the users? No.
\n\n
Still haven't heard what's in it for the users with this migration. Maybe I'm missing something?
\n\n
Net: As long as 1P7 will work on Monterey, and they commit to support it until 1P8 is full featured and stable we have time to see if Agile gets it right. If not, well, then time's really short.
\n\n
P.S. At least they didn't try to build it on something like eclipse!
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In the meantime Apple released iCloud 12.5 for Windows: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-releases-icloud-12-5-for-windows-with-icloud-keychain-password-manager-app.2307743/ \nIt includes a keychain password manager. This should really settle it. There is no reason (for most people) to invest in sth like 1Password.
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Why not?
\n
\n\n
We're going in circles here, I'm afraid.
\n\n
We definitely want to find a solution here that will allow users to quickly and easily reveal their passwords without the level of risk the behavior in v7 exposes.
\n\n
Ben
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\n
This is a problem we're looking at, but I don't think it is as easy as simply re-doing what we had in 1Password 7.
\n
\n\n
Why not? Have it turned off by default if necessary and a preference for users who understand the risk to turn it on if they want. You could also limit the amount of time the password is revealed for on a press and make that user configurable.
\n\n
Not everyone uses 1Password in a situation that can be easily shoulder-surfed or screen-shared, so why deny those users a very useful feature if they want it? Again this seems to be dumbing the product down for the corporate market.
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Thank you, hazmat! I'll pass along that suggestion to the team working on keyboard shortcuts.
\n\n
Ben
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1P_Ben A long press of the Option key could be a good compromise for revealing the password.
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XIII commented just above that they have had the issue with '⌥ to reveal' accidentally revealing sensitive information. This is a problem we're looking at, but I don't think it is as easy as simply re-doing what we had in 1Password 7. We need to look at how we can offer this functionality without the downsides.
\n\n
Regarding requiring a password to export... it appears our security team has already weighed in on that, and we will be requiring that in the future.
\n\n
\n
The security engineering team decided that we should be requiring a password prompt for users to confirm the export action.
\n
\n\n
It looks like it is just design and UI implementation work to be done for that to happen.
\n\n
Ben
\n\n
ref: dev/core/core#8989
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