Is v8 a mistake edition?

Hello again Mycenius, thanks for your detailed reply about the issues you are experiencing with Windows Hello after extended use throughout your day.

The only thought that comes to mind is as mentioned in my previous message. Without the TPM option enabled (if available), the only reason the Windows Hello PIN prompt would not appear is if your device rebooted or 1Password itself had crashed or was otherwise terminated. When you get to a point later in the day when the Windows Hello PIN prompt typically does not appear, can you first check that the 1Password app is still running in the background?

The issue described sounds to be happening too often and I'm wondering that if the app is no longer running in the background, a crash and the subsequent clearing of the temporary Windows Hello key, is forcing the use of your account password.

If this is the case and the app is no longer running in the background, we'd like to investigate further and ask you for a diagnostics report from your Windows PC.

Attach this file in an email addressed to support+windows@1password.com. With your email please include a brief description of the issue and:
* A link to this thread: https://1password.community/discussion/comment/658761/#Comment_658761
* Your forum username: Mycenius

You'll receive an automated response from our BitBot assistant with a Support ID (example ABC-12345-678). Please post that number here. Thanks!

Thanks ag_mike_d that is appreciated.

Note that re: PIN in iOS there also needs to be an equivalent in MacOS as even 1Password 7 only supported biometric (fingerprint) or Apple Watch - which again is incredibly infuriating if you don't have biometrics enabled and don't use an Apple Watch. A variable 6-8 digit/character PIN is as secure, if not more so, than those options and provides an option for ANY user regardless of what functionality they may or may not have enabled on the device. :-)

Re: Windows and your comment:

Regarding this comment, 1Password 8 uses Windows Hello for the PIN unlock. When you say this only works about half the time, it sounds like perhaps this maybe after a reboot or when the 1Password app is completely terminated. This is expected behaviour as 1Password requires your account password after a reboot. However, if you have a hardware backed Trusted Platform Module (TPM 2.0) in your windows device, you can set the following option through 1Password 8 for Windows so that Windows Hello can persist through system restarts: Use Windows Hello to unlock 1Password on your Windows PC - Manage your settings. Please let us know if this helps!

No, this isn't the scenario - not worried about persistency after a restart - happy to re-enter master password in this scenario. The situation I'm experiencing is when the PC has been running for a while with 1Password open but minimised. So...

Windows 10 PC is set up to lock the screen/screensaver after 30 minutes, and 1Password set to lock after 10 minutes. You start the PC, log in with your Windows user PIN (Windows Hello), you open your browser (with 1Password extension) and you main 1Password app, and for the 1Password app enter your master password, then minimise the app out of the way.
You do a little work immediately and use a password or two out of 1Password via the browser extension (while main 1Password app is unlocked from original master password sign in), then take a break and go away.
An hour later you return to resume using your browser and restore 1Password app - it will after a delay of a few seconds bring up the Windows Hello PIN input for 1Password and allow you to enter your PIN and unlock it - you carry on working as usual for a bit. You go away again...
and return a couple of hours later and 1 of 2 things happen - either (a) the PIN comes up again as described in previous sentence, or (b) it doesn't and you have to re-enter Master Password. You work for a bit and go away again (e.g. PC may have been on and running for perhaps 4-8 hours by this stage).
When you return one of 3 things will typically happen: (c) if (a) happened above and the PIN worked then this time it almost certainly fails like (b) above and you have to re-enter the master password, or if (b) above happened and you re-entered the master password then (d) occasionally the PIN might appear, or (e) more typically the balance of the time (75%+) you need to re-enter the master password yet again, and so on.
And so it repeats infinitum if the PC is on for a reasonable period of time (i.e. several hours or more) and you go away and come back to use it at periodic intervals.

I have been unable to identify an obvious pattern or any other 'events' on the PC that could be contributing other than it starts happening after it's been on and running for say at least 3 or more hours and the Windows screen lock, etc, has triggered a couple of times (where you need to enter your Windows PIN to unlock the PC), and both Windows and 1Password have time delays set to auto-lock after a certain amount of inactivity. So not helpful for diagnosing I'm afraid, but that is the behaviour I've been regularly observing under v8 on my PC (and v7 might have done the same prior to that if it was supporting the Windows Hello PIN unlock, I can't recall for certain).

I suspect it may also be more likely a Windows idiosyncrasy than possibly a 1Password bug, given when the PIN does come up successfully sometimes there can be a long lag and other times its instantaneous - suggesting even when the PC is idle and using minimal processor & memory something takes a bit to 'kick into life' in Windows to activate the PIN GUI input...

Cheers

Hello again Mycenius,

Thanks for getting back to us with those earlier discussions. We've previously passed along your feedback regarding the PIN length and added your details to our trackers for the feature request of adding the PIN unlock option for the 1Password 8 mobile apps, and to our filed issue for date formatting.

although on Windows my use of the Windows PIN does work, but only about half the time (i.e. its flaky)

Regarding this comment, 1Password 8 uses Windows Hello for the PIN unlock. When you say this only works about half the time, it sounds like perhaps this maybe after a reboot or when the 1Password app is completely terminated. This is expected behaviour as 1Password requires your account password after a reboot. However, if you have a hardware backed Trusted Platform Module (TPM 2.0) in your windows device, you can set the following option through 1Password 8 for Windows so that Windows Hello can persist through system restarts: Use Windows Hello to unlock 1Password on your Windows PC - Manage your settings. Please let us know if this helps!

I'd also like to thank you for passing along the screenshots displaying the differences you are seeing between 1Password 7 and 8's favourites menus. I can see where this certainly does make a difference and included all of these details for the product team in a feature request.

Please let us know if you have any comments or feedback to share. Have a great day!

ref: IDEA-I-1951

ag_mike_d on iOS as mentioned the indexing letters don't appear - so presume this is by design - however the header instead wastes a lot of screen real-estate. I have also noticed other anomalies that I will mention at bottom of this post.

This is 1Password 7 on iPhone 12 Pro Max (with a favourites list of 10 items designed to ensure all 10 are visible on screen without scrolling, etc):

And this is the new 1Password 8 layout on the same device with the same 10 favourites - only 8 are now visible because of the large amount of screen bandwidth used by the header:

So basically your favourites list gets shortened by 2 items unless you want to faff about scrolling - essentially being a different variation of the issue above with indexing letters - a list of favourites does not fit in the same amount of screen space as it used to in v7. I hate to think what it is like for people who don't have the luxury of a large device like I do (iPhone 12 Pro Max) - They will have less screen to start with, so will lose a greater proportion to the header - perhaps as much as 33% of useable surface area taken?

This is (for me at least) incredibly annoying on a mobile device, especially when needing to switch between apps to do sign ins (such as when login and password fields aren't auto-recognised to allow use of the system password app, or when they are actively blocked from being pasted into - which seems to be becoming more frequent BTW).

NOTE: This (the above paragraph) is also a major reason why removal of the PIN option is also incredibly frustrating and annoying - as 1Password relocks each time you switch apps so constantly re-entering a long passphrase is infuriating when trying to log into a app or site with these constraints (and not wanting to disable the security in 1Password itself).

As for the other issues/anomalies I've noticed:

1. You will note the second screen shot is not in alphabetical order - that is because I cannot figure out how to get it to go alphabetically on my iPhone (iOS) - my main list of all items I have changed to alphabetical and that displays that alphabetically - but the favourites will not follow suit - it always displays in this random order that is not date modified order; I'm guessing its the original date creation order reversed - and I cannot find anyway anywhere in the app to change it from this! (P.S. I'm betting its a programming slip up and someone has forgotten to enable the sorting function on this screen? or perhaps it's not and I'm just too dumb to figure it out.)
2. Also you will note that the v7 screen shot is correctly showing "Favourites" while v8 is incorrectly showing "Favorites" (I am in New Zealand and using New Zealand & British English on my device) - so I don't know again if this is an intentional 'feature upgrade via feature removal' from v8 (like the PIN issue), or a genuine bug; but its another little annoying niggle for non-Americans versus v7 and not honouring system language settings. Curiously enough my date formats in v8 are (now?) displaying in correct format it seems on iOS - so v8 as of today is using the correct date format from the OS settings, its just not using the other language settings like v7 does.

Cheers.

Hi ag_mike_d - regarding the index headings - first up apologies, some slight confusion - there are 2 slightly different issues that have essentially the same net effect - the original one looks to only affect MacOS and Windows installs (the presence of the indexing characters in favourites), the second affects iOS (and I presume probably Android too?) where the indexing letters don't appear but the header layout wastes a lot of screen space (thereby having a similar effect). Here are some screen shots as requested illustrating the issue(s):

These screenshots are off Windows 10 but I believe MacOS is the same (I will recheck my MacBook tonight). I have sanitised these for privacy so have just left enough details for purposes of this demonstration:

How it used to display in 1Password 7 - everything visible, no scrolling, relatively small window:

This is how the exact same thing with the exact same 10 items in the exact same sized window now displays in 1Password 8 - lots of scrolling and faffing about to get everything:

To display the same 10 items in 1Password 8 my window has to be open to just shy of twice the height of the above window:

(Note I do have v8 set to 'comfortable' not compact, but it's all proportional so even if using the smaller font - which I wouldn't due to my eyesight - you still need significantly larger window size to see all items without scrolling or faffing about).

The issue with iOS is slightly different and I will provide screenshots in the next post...

ag_mike_d thanks for the acknowledgment - note that the original threads for these issues are (in case you have not already seen them):

No PIN Option - this is in iOS discussion here but believe it impacts all OS versions - although on Windows my use of the Windows PIN does work, but only about half the time (i.e. its flaky): https://1password.community/discussion/132236/pin-lock-option-removed-in-v8

Note also on PIN codes I previously raised the length issue - iOS allows 6 (or even 8 I think) digits but 1Password was artificially constrained to 4 digits in v7 and earlier - so when PIN is reinstated it would be good if it either followed the iOS system or if independent at least let you choose a length (after all other apps like Protomail have easily implemented this when requested or already have it): https://1password.community/discussion/118610/pin-code-length

Date format incorrect and does not follow the system defaults: https://1password.community/discussion/131071/incorrect-date-format

Unnecessary index headings in Favourites / can there be an option to disable these (again this is under MacOS but equally affects all OS types - I find it especially annoying on iOS due to the device size where it take sup a lot of screen real estate - its fine being present in the main list of all items but not in smaller lists like Favourites): https://1password.community/discussion/132324/is-there-a-way-to-remove-the-totally-pointless-index-headings-in-the-list-view

I will try and get the screenshot examples sorted for you ASAP to illustrate the above index headings issue.

Thanks.

Hi @Philshome,

Thanks for the updated information and that this is occurring with Safari and Chrome. Could you please write with a description of the issues you are having to support+forum@1Password.com along with the following details:
* Save a console log for 1Password in your browser
* A link to your thread: https://1password.community/discussion/comment/657533/#Comment_657533
* Your forum handle: Philshome

With regard to the downgrade to 1Password 7 for Mac, I'll provide some more details below:
1. Quit 1Password 8 and drag it to the trash. Do not use an app cleaner for this. Manually completing this step will keep your data safe. - Optional leave it here if you intend on trying 1Password 8 again. It can also be re downloaded later on.
2. Double click 1Password 7.app.zip in your Applications folder to expand it. You can then remove the zip file from the Applications folder. - If you have removed 1Password 7 it can be downloaded here. Download 1Password for Mac
3. Open Safari and disable 1Password for Safari and enable the 1Password extension (likely version 7.9.x)
4. Drag 1Password for Safari to the trash. - Optional leave it here if you intend on trying 1Password 8 again. It can also be re-downloaded.

Hello Mycenius, thanks for your feedback. I've passed along your thoughts and details to the product team regarding PIN security and date formats in 1Password 8.

With regard to your comment about the inability to remove letter dividers in favourites on iOS, could you let us know more about where and what you are seeing? If you could please send a long a screenshot, that would be most helpful. When sending a screenshot, please be sure to redact any personal or private information. Looking forward to your reply!

ref: IDEA-I-1222
ref: dev/core/core#8747

ag_mike_d thank you for your response. Yes it is in a browser, both Safari and Chrome. I'm sorry but I don't have time to use a Beta version especially when the production one is so flaky. I paid for this app because it worked and I didn't have to do much to make that happen. Now it seems it doesn't. Also I'd need a link to a Mac version to downgrade and will it keep all the new passwords I have added under v8?

I think I have experienced similar on rare occasions running 1Password8 on Windows 10 but have not been specifically monitoring for that as an issue. There are other issues as well that mean I am running v7 on my iOS iPhone 12 and iPad Air 4 as I cannot use the v8 upgrade due to the major issues of no option for PIN security (I am completely baffled as to why this would have ever been removed) and also found the issue with dates displaying in the very annoying US format regardless of your device settings extremely frustrating (trying to live with this on my Windows and MacOS for now) as well as the inability to remove completely unnecessary letter dividers in favourites on iOS means half your valuable screen real estate on your mobile phone is taken up with useless spacers/dividers (if you have a list of say 8-12 favourites specifically designed to fit within your phone screen area and are now having up to 12 'dividers' added to the list is painful; as you are then having to scroll some way to get to the last entry which just is illogical and an ergonomically poor design feature).

It's a pity because v8 looks quite good in some ways and I'm sure a lot of effort went into it - but there's been a bit of a fail in these areas around security (the PIN is critical) and user interface & ergonomics...